From: Mary
Jessica,
I find whenever I have a problem, I always go to your web site to find answers because you always take the most correct and objective point of view, not like many other horse-people who are so opinionated.
I am 'Mary' who asked you about who to listen to when buying a horse. Thanks for your great advice! Lately I went to see a horse and got into an argument with the owner. The horse is a 4 year old, 16h QH. He is trained hunter and still a bit green, just started fence work. He has nice temperament, but lacks impulsion. He does not want to carry himself and wants the rider to pick him up. I mentioned to the owner that I would like to see him use himself more and the owner was very offended and said I wasn't squeezing with my legs to support the horse.
My impression is based on 1... last month I went to Germany to learn Dressage. The first thing the coach there told me is I should ride from my seat and keep my legs quiet. The legs should be 'on' but I never re-apply leg aids, i.e. once the horse is doing what I ask, my legs should be 'passive' until I ask for something else. I should not keep squeezing or tapping with my legs. 2... my coach has been letting me ride her dressage horses. I rode her 4 year old warmblood. He is very big yet very light and responsive; he carries himself and has lots of suspension. I close my legs, he immediately opens up/extends. My coach said the first thing a horse must learn is to be forward with impulsion and 'think' forward. When riding a young horse, it is especially important to ride as quietly as possible so the horse is tuned to small aids.
Going back to my horse shopping experience. I feel I needed to help the QH too much with every step. I feel that this horse only has 1 gear; with much support, he produced an average trot but I believe he (like any horse) is capable of a finer set of response and more self carriage. Is it the discipline that makes us think differently? Am I wrong in my expectation or assumption on how a horse should go? Who is right?
'Mary'
The first thing I would point out is that the QH you tried out is still a baby. At four, he is not full-grown, much less fully-trained. Young horses typically need more support from the rider's legs, hands, and sometimes seat. Young horses also are typically on the forehand to a much greater extent than older, fully-developed and fully-trained horses.
There's nothing wrong with your expectation/assumption about how a horse should go, as long as you understand that there are several factors that create the way a horse goes - how it is bred, how it is built, how it is trained, and how it is ridden. Hunters are taught to expect a certain style of riding and certain aids; Western horses are taught to expect a certain style of riding and certain cues; dressage horses... more about this in a minute!
Young horses don't have the balance, experience, or neuromuscular development to offer and instant, impulsive, balanced response to light aids. Neither do older horses - UNLESS they have been trained to offer such a response, and helped to develop in such a way that they (a) UNDERSTAND what the rider is asking, (b) are physically CAPABLE of offering such a response consistently, and (c) have been ridden so consistently and well that they are in the HABIT of offering such a response consistently.
Hunter training, like dressage training, is a variable commodity. Just as there are dressage trainers who produce light, soft horses that go on a gentle, stretchy contact and respond to even the slightest shift of the rider's boot, there are dressage trainers who produce horses that push against the bit and need constant reminders to keep going forward. The difference is in the trainer, not the horses. There are huge Warmbloods that are very sensitive to light aids; there are thin-skinned, sensitive Thoroughbreds and Arabians that respond only to strong, crude aids because that's how they've been trained. Can any horse feel a rider's light aids? Certainly. Does every horse understand what light aids mean? NO. Can any horse learn? My experience says "Yes" - but with one caveat: A horse can be trained to respond instantly to light aids ONLY if it is trained by a good trainer who is constantly striving to use lighter and lighter aids. The rider's leg staying passive until/unless you want to change something is an ideal, but ideals must be worked toward, and horses must be trained to understand what you want. A few points to consider here:
1) A youngster that is built for and has begun to be trained for one sport may seem unresponsive to you if your expectations and aids are based on riding horses that are built for and have been or are being trained for another sport entirely.
2) A horse of any age that has been taught one set of signals, or taught to expect a certain type or level or frequency of signal, will always tend to wait for that signal - in other words, a horse will tend to go as it has been trained to go. A horse that has been taught to listen for and respond instantly to a slight tightening of the rider's calf is not necessarily more sensitive or attentive than another horse that has been taught to ignore the rider's leg and wait for a push from the seat, it just has a different set of expectations.
Don't underestimate the combined effects of breeding and training. Your coach's four-year-old WB has been bred for dressage, and from what you've said of your coach, it sounds as though the horse's training has begun very well. Your coach seems to be focused on keeping this horse forward, energetic, and "uphill", and all of the training is taking place within this context. The four-year-old QH hunter you tried has not been bred for this sort of movement and has not been trained for this sort of response. You could probably buy the horse, take him home, give him a month off and then start him again, from the ground up, with your coach's help - and you would eventually have a very nice, willing, QH that would be much more responsive and energetic and forward than it was when you tried it. It would still be a QH, though, not a WB, and it would still be bred and built for a different style of movement, so it's unlikely that it would ever become a WB clone. The horses that do well in QH hunter classes are very unlike the WBs that do well in dressage, both because of their training and because of their physical attributes. Whilst some of these things are amenable to change - horses can be retrained, and bodies can be remodeled to some extent - it would be cruel to ask a long-backed, long-necked horse with daisy-cutting gaits and a naturally low head carriage to become round and elevated, with more knee and hock action, a lifted back and neck, and a much higher head carriage. You could, over time, develop such a horse so that it was as round and as elevated as its conformation would allow, but years of work might just bring you to the point at which your coach's young WB is starting out.
Similarly, it would be unkind to take a free-moving "uphill" horse with natural knee and hock action and a naturally higher head carriage, and try to train it to move like the horses that do well in QH hunter classes. Even after years of careful training and the re-development of its muscles, it MIGHT reach the point at which that young QH was starting out.
Attitude and energy level (equine and human) can be quite different, too. A horse that is naturally quiet and needs to be encouraged forward may make a wonderful mount for QH hunter classes, and may indeed be an ideal choice for a timid rider whose greatest fear is being run away with by an excitable animal, but the horse may simply lack the energy level, boldness and presence that would help make it successful in the world of competitive dressage. A horse that is naturally "full of itself" and perhaps a bit fizzy would be quite unsuitable for those hunter classes, where a quiet, calm demeanour is all-important, but (assuming appropriate movement and conformation) might be very well-suited to dressage competition under a secure, confident rider.
When you said that you would have liked the QH to use himself more, you were comparing him to the dressage horses you have ridden, and to your coach's undoubtedly talented, well-built, and well-started young WB. The comment made perfect sense to you, but probably made no sense at all to the QH's owner, whose experience is based on a different way of going and different standards. Disciplines vary widely - which is a pity, especially when it comes to show-ring standards - and an energetic, rounded horse that "uses itself well" in dressage terms would be unlikely to be placed in the ribbons in a QH hunter class, just as a well-trained Western horse that stayed obediently behind the bit on a loose rein would be unlikely to get a ribbon at a dressage show. Can those horses learn to carry themselves and use their bodies in the ways that will let them win ribbons in those classes? Yes, it's possible, but it will take a considerable amount of time to retrain their bodies and change their understanding and their expectations.
Now, as to whether you ride more from the seat or from the legs - that's a very individual question, and the answer is "both and neither." The legs initiate movement; the seat either allows the movement to happen or blocks the horse's back and prevents the movement from happening. Riders who try to do too much with the seat - riders who attempt to create movement from the seat or amplify movement by pushing or grinding with the seat - will simply create sore-backed horses. There has been a regrettable tendency to overuse and misuse the seat, particularly in certain styles of dressage, because of a misunderstanding about equine biomechanics - and also, I think, because of mis-matches between horses and riders.
For many years, the "typical" competitive dressage rider was a small woman, generally hopelessly overmounted on an enormous, Brontosaurus-like Warmblood. Such riders couldn't hope to use their legs effectively; like tiny children on large ponies, they were riding their saddles more than their horses. When a rider's leg only comes halfway down her horse's side, and her calf is in contact with the upper part of the horse's barrel, that rider won't be able to use her lower legs correctly, because they won't be in the right place. A rider in this position is going to learn to push and grind with her seat instead, even though this is very bad for the horse and indeed for the rider's riding. Fortunately, we seem to be getting away from this trend. Today's WBs are smaller and lighter, more athletic, and easier for smaller riders to ride correctly.
A quiet, "listening" seat, like a quiet, "listening" leg, can be used gently and briefly, as needed, without disturbing the rider's position or the horse's balance or comfort. A light, flexible seat will invite the horse's back to lift and "fill up the seat", whilst a hard, pushing, driving seat will eventually cause the horse to drop its back away from the discomfort. If you watch the top dressage riders in action outside the competition arena, you'll see that they spend a good bit of time in a half-seat, both to develop their own balance and leg position, and to help their horses learn to move freely, with no "interruptions" from the rider's seat. The best riders, of course, can sit without interfering with their horses' movement, but the best riders will still spend a good bit of time in a half-seat, especially when working with young horses, green horses, old horses, or horses coming back from an injury.
It sounds to me as though you have an excellent coach. What did your coach think about this young QH? If she felt that the horse had the physique, temperament, and movement to do what you would like it to do, then don't worry about having to support the horse too much - that is something that will change to some extent as the horse matures, and can be changed by you and your coach to a much greater extent through training, as the horse learns what YOUR expectations are. If your coach thought that the horse would be suitable for you - or wouldn't be suitable for you - then you just need to ask "Why?" and you'll have the information you need.
One last point: I find that whether you are looking for a young horse for a particular sport or whether you are trying to determine which sport will best suit a particular horse, it's always better to observe the young horse, analyze its build and movement and temperament, and figure out what's going to be easiest and most natural and most fun for that horse to do - then help it develop in that direction. I am a firm believer in the usefulness of basic dressage for every sort of horse, as correct training and development promotes health and soundness and self-confidence and happiness. But if you are looking for a horse that can perform and succeed competitively at high levels, why spend years trying to teach a horse to do, with difficulty, what another sort of horse could do easily and happily and well? Life is much simpler and more pleasant for everyone when trainers and riders work WITH the nature and abilities of their horses instead of trying to change what they have into something else. This doesn't mean that you can't win at Grand Prix with a Quarter Horse - there are exceptional individuals with special talents in every breed - but you'll find it easier to locate a suitable WB than a suitable QH for that purpose. If you were looking for an outstanding cutting-horse prospect, you would similarly find it easier to locate a suitable QH than a suitable WB (or the sort of QH that would make a good prospect for QH hunter classes, come to that). Always look at the individual, but do try to give yourself the largest and most useful pool of animals in which to find that individual.
Jessica
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